DJ/P diatribe f/iMdb & some questions?

Teen drama series that follows four friends: Dawson, Joey, Jen and Pacey in the fictional seaside town of Capeside.
"The only difference is~ He loves you back."

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DJ/P diatribe f/iMdb & some questions?

Post by Hulk Hogan 80 » 02/06/04 09:06

All right. I don't know how this will be taken here, but for a few reasons, I'm posting a topic from the DC board over on the Internet Movie Database. It's funny how there's more DJers there & this board seems like 80% or mroe PJers. That's fine. But since I got in a growing debate on that never-ending DC issue, some of the stuff I'd inevitably want to say is in this script, so that's one reason, to get some of these concepts out there. I also foundout a lot of new things & have some questions that maybe I could get answered..

Some iMdb user on why the finale supposedly sucked

Joey should have stuck with her heart and went with Dawson...

the writer sure did mess up a great show with a disappointing finale.

Sure there was closure but not with Dawson & Joey... this is his show..

Should have left Pacey mingle with one of the few other handful of girl he got together with while Dawson was still struggling with his love for Joey... I mean he had Emma for a little bit, Audrey, and Andie that they could have put him with to close the series...

Well at least O.C. is turning out to be a show that could show a lot more promise in it then Dawson's did. Though I do give them a lot of credit for letting Dawson go through with his dreams of being a director but they did they ever have him meet Spielberg like he always wanted to?

I am just hoping O.C. doesn't screw up the made to be together relationship like the writers of Dawson did... in all reality, Dawson's Creek ended for me at season 2 and started back up in the middle of season 5 when Dawson's dad died... Season 3 and 4 had Pacey & Joey... and those two aren't meant for each other... Pacey is meant for a business life with a high risk wife...

Re: Finale sucked
by - FunShine1218 (Thu Jan 29 13:19:59) Ignore this User | Report Abuse
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Hey, Dawson/Joey fans! If it makes you feel any better, Joey was originally supposed to end up with Dawson. They were soulmates. The first two drafts of the final episode script both had Joey and Dawson end up together. That's why, if you watch closely, during the first hour of the two-hour finale, more interaction happens between Dawson and Joey, because they were supposed to be together. However, at the last minute, the writers decided that it just didn't feel right, and knew that it was a lose-lose situation... if she ended up with Dawson, the P/J fans would complain... and if she ended up with Pacey, the D/J fans would complain (which is obviously happening!) Anywayz, the writers/directors/producers never failed to believe that Dawson and Joey were soulmates. But a soulmate doesn't necessarily have to be the person you end up with. Sorry, I'm just rambling now... just wanted you to know this information... if you've watched the commentary on the series finale, you already knew!

Anywayz, I think that's the reason the finale wasn't as well-accomplished as it could have been... the writers wrote the first half of the episode with the intentions to put Dawson and Joey together... so it didn't flow when she ended up with Pacey.

As a Pacey/Joey fan, though, I was quite pleased with how it ended up. I still believe wholeheartedly that Dawson and Joey were soulmates. But Pacey and Joey just complemented each other better. Happy Creek-watching!

Re: Finale sucked
by - Vegeta670 (Thu Jan 29 14:06:09) Ignore this User | Report Abuse
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NawlimitSoulja first off I don't see a best friend triangle happening in the O.C.(yes I watch the O.C.). For the argument that Dawson should have ended with Joey but didn't just talk to Paculliton and she'll tell you all the reasons(even though there wrong, lol).

Re: Finale sucked
by - NawlimitSoulja (Thu Jan 29 14:58:06) Ignore this User | Report Abuse
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maybe not a best friend triangle since Seth & Marissa will never get together... Ryan doesn't want to be with either Anna or Summer... but they do have love triangles available for Seth...

But the writing is cleverly better with storylines intertwined with the adults also... the show isn't just about teenages but the adults also...

And the girls are of course better looking too... and guys are funnier...

Don't get me wrong, Joey is beautiful but Jen didn't get beautiful until the last two seasons even though her hair cut leaves a lot to be wanted...

Anyways... Dawson's Creek was excellent just they ended it all wrong for the occasional viewers that watched it or even the hardcore fans that watched it for original relationships between the characters...

Re: Finale sucked
by - Paculliton (Thu Jan 29 15:06:27) Ignore this User | Report Abuse
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Vegeta, I'm leaving you for Nawlimit. LOL
Well put my friend.

Re: Finale sucked
by - NawlimitSoulja (Thu Jan 29 17:32:32) Ignore this User | Report Abuse
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thanks for the compliment... They should have ended it like it was intended to... imagine if the writers found out that after season 2 the show was going to be canceled... so do you think they would still allow Dawson not to have Joey? No, they would have stuck to the right decision...

anyways... I think The O.C. will make me forget about all the bad seasons of Dawson's Creek...

Re: Finale sucked
by - joeyanddawson (Thu Jan 29 21:47:16) Ignore this User | Report Abuse
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the finale didn't suck it just didn't end up the right way, and trust me kevin will make up for those d/j fans like myself. dawson joey 4ever

DAWSON: What?
JOEY: I love you, too.

Re: Finale sucked
by - shabab123 3 days ago (Mon Feb 2 13:20:25) Ignore this User | Report Abuse
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joeyanddawson, how is Kevin Williamson going to make up for d/j fans?
He can only do that by re-making the finale and giving it the proper ending in which Joey and Dawson end up together.

Re: Finale sucked
by - tope_fun 3 days ago (Mon Feb 2 13:42:23) Ignore this User | Report Abuse
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I think it was the right ending: Joey and Pacey together; while in Dawson's show about the creek the characters playing Joey and Dawson (don't remember their names)ended up together in the tv show. So there you have the 2 endings. *# Note from me : uhh NO! That was just re-enacting the Sn.1 end & if his show went on, & went with the DC reality, it'd be the same ending. This person was out of it entirely. #*

People keep saying that DC is about Dawson, but as the show developed it was more about Joey (which I really enjoyed). Joey was the center of attention. The show focused more on Joey's character in the final seasons. Her storyline was far more interesting than that of Dawson's.
I am watching TBS reruns too and to be honest... Dawson was really sweet during the first seasons, but later on, he became very possessive of Joey and finally he turned into a really boring character. Pacey and Eddie's lines were more attractive and interesting.

Re: Finale sucked
by - joeyanddawson 3 days ago (Mon Feb 2 15:59:28) Ignore this User | Report Abuse
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pacey maybe but eddie? give me a break he killed the show.

Re: Finale sucked
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I got the announcement that Kevin was coming back to write the finale and my heart literally *sang* with joy, because I felt that he would at least end the show right... he would give us the payoff, after 5+ years of rooting for D/J to get together, and way too many episodes of a lesser writing staff messing things up for everyone with plot twists that don't stay true to the beautiful characters that he carved. (For instance, I thought the Eddie character was not something/one that the real Joey would have gone for -- so I was actually rooting for P/J around the time of the KMart episode.)

Then to not only have the show end in a way that was contrary to what the longest fans had invested their viewing heart in, but to find out that he HAD originally written the finale the way I wanted it to be...TWICE...but had to re-write the finale under an edict from network suits based on the actors' popularity rather than based on the characters themselves... it disgusted me and left me very angry at the show.

Re: Finale sucked
by - shabab123 3 days ago (Tue Feb 3 04:01:44) Ignore this User | Report Abuse
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Is Kevin Williamson really going to do something about the ending?

Re: Finale sucked
by - Paculliton 3 days ago (Tue Feb 3 05:21:49) Ignore this User | Report Abuse
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I'm quite sure he will not.
Much to my dismay!

If they weren't going to offer an alternative ending with the DVD release of the series finale, they never will.

Re: Finale sucked
by - shabab123 2 days ago (Tue Feb 3 16:30:23) Ignore this User | Report Abuse
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You're probably right.
Then our last hope will be when they release season 6 on DVD.
They should take time and use their heads and do the alternate ending with d/j which is the real ending.

Re: Finale sucked
by - Paculliton 2 days ago (Tue Feb 3 16:41:26) Ignore this User | Report Abuse
UPDATED Tue Feb 3 16:42:49
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Shabab -- do you have AIM? A girl in Germany actually created an alternate (proper ) ending, by using the original DC footage and some groovy editing software.

The file is a little too large to transfer directly via email, but it can be sent as a peer to peer file transfer on AIM. If you have an AIM name and want me to send it to you that way, let me know your AIM name and I'll put you on my buddy list and if you're on at the same time I am sometime (as it seems we both are right now actually) I'll transfer the file to you. You will really enjoy it.

It's about 5 minutes long, as I recall, and it's set to music (that song "Broken Road" that was used when Dawson realized he was in love with Joey at the end of S-1).

joeyanddawson, or anyone else who would enjoy it, same goes.

Re: Finale sucked
by - joeyanddawson 2 days ago (Tue Feb 3 20:20:22) Ignore this User | Report Abuse
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nicholas012345
thanks

Re: Finale sucked
by - joeyanddawson 2 hours ago (Fri Feb 6 05:55:30) Ignore this User | Report Abuse
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thanks pac for that great video it truly shows with out adoubt how it should of been thank u.
dawson joey 4ever

Re: Finale sucked
by - T1Flippy (Thu Jan 29 21:52:40) Ignore this User | Report Abuse
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to NawlimitSoulja:
When you say that joey should have followed her heart. SHE DID!. And about her and Dawson. They did find closure because they were soul mates. They would always have a special connection in this lifetime and everyother lifetime. Like they said it goes beyond friends and beyond lovers. It's forever. And Personally I think that Joey and Pacey never got over eachother and that they loved eachother all along. Also that they make the cutiest couple. *# Must be a girl & an attraction bias for Pace #*

Re: Finale sucked
by - joeyanddawson (Fri Jan 30 06:51:12) Ignore this User | Report Abuse
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they did love one another but don't give me this bull that they loved one anmother all along did she love pacey when she was having sex with dawson? bad writing don't want to hear that anymore its bad writing. kevin said he didn't do his job that line from the finale should have been taken out cause she hasn't always loved pacey.

Re: Finale sucked
by - Paculliton (Fri Jan 30 07:22:11) Ignore this User | Report Abuse
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Nor has Pacey been the one she's always run from. So clearly those lines were written about her feelings toward Dawson and then the script ending was changed. So absurd.

It wasn't totally absurd for her to end up with Pacey, even I'l acknowledge that. A lot of times at that age people think with their groin and not their heads. But for them to write the lines about always running from Pacey, etc. is an insult to the viewers' intelligence--- D/Js, P/Js and undecideds!

I hadn't known of the commentary & the fact that they'd originally written for Joey to end up with Dawson. I still gotta get the Finale DVD off eBay or something. Now my questions I had. First of all, does anybody here know anything of this German girl's alternate ending? If so, I was thinking I'd like to see that, although I'm leaning against not watching a fictional ending even if it was what was planned originally. Gotta come to terms with what they actually did show & the love triangle resolution wasn't such a terrible thing to me. If anyone knows how I could view that, though, I'd like to know at least where to get it or how & I'd rather not ask this person on iMdb although I could. Second question, does anyone know the schedule for the next Releases of the DVDs? I know Sn. 2 has been out for a bit & I'm wondering when all the next ones will be out. If they waited too long, that wouldn't be too smart.

Finally, my third question is way off subject. Does anyone know what the difference is between the two Blue Lagoon movies? I haven't seen em' both fully, but I think one's got Brooke Shields in it & the other Milla Jovovich. Is one just a remake? That's what I'm thinking. Anyways thanks for putting up with this gigantic post, lol.

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DJ/P diatribe f/iMdb & some questions?

Post by LittlePinkStars » 02/06/04 15:16

I didn't read all the comment, because it's after midnight and I'm so tired

Anyway all I can answer now is the OT question!
The Blue Lagoon movie with Milla is not a remake. It's the same sort of story, only with new persona's.

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DJ/P diatribe f/iMdb & some questions?

Post by jppw » 02/06/04 16:07

Dude!...let it go man...everybody that Dawson and Joey are like brother and sister. Joey and Pacey now that's TRUE LOVE. The show will stay in our hearts. And there are more PJers than DJers.

Now let's all watch The OC. that rules. But Ryan and Marissa will never be Joey and Pacey

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DJ/P diatribe f/iMdb & some questions?

Post by jppw » 02/06/04 16:09

If The OC were Dawsons Creek:

Pacey: Ryan
Joey: Marissa
Dawson: Seth
Summer: Jenn
Luke: Jack
Anna: Eve

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DJ/P diatribe f/iMdb & some questions?

Post by bunniefuu » 02/07/04 18:22

Hulk Hogan 80~ Welcome to the board!




And actually, I'm not quite so sure it's all P/Jers here. I think we actually have quite a few D/Jers and even a few "no shippers". But then again... what do I know?
Quote:
did they ever have him meet Spielberg like he always wanted to?
Yes. They did in the finale.
Quote:
Season 3 and 4 had Pacey & Joey... and those two aren't meant for each other... Pacey is meant for a business life with a high risk wife...
I strongly disagree with that statement.
Quote:
Joey was originally supposed to end up with Dawson. They were soulmates.
Crackhead writers. I mean, COME on already. They don't show them together for years and then just want to throw them together in the end? Yeah right. Stupid concept if I've ever seen one.

And
1. No idea?
2. No clue-- but I'm sure they will all be released eventually.
3. I thought it was just the sequel to the first?

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DJ/P diatribe f/iMdb & some questions?

Post by Hulk Hogan 80 » 02/10/04 12:27

Well I am about done with this subject, I'm sure it's been wore out on many by now. I replied to you on that other topic also. But to your last disagreement, I dunno which couple you meant, not being shown together for years. In Sn.6 both couples were teased, D & J slept together of course in the opener & things finally looked perfect between em', course only to go completely arye. That never being dealt with, though, left a lot to be desired. I guess those two chose to forget what happened for what, 5 yrs? Lol. P and J had that KMart show & just began heating up again, only for Joey to chose Eddie. So both couples had small uprisings. I'm kinda confused on what you meant there.

Now that it's all said and done, though, the more I think of it I can see both sides of things. Now I don't believe either decision Joey chose would've made for the wrong ending. To me it's fine either way. I'll always be sentimental to D&J, but I guess some view them as best friends in a way that pushing things romantically was never the right choice. But if you say that Dawson was meant to always be Joey's best friend, then the same can be said for Pacey. All 3 were the core friends since they were born basically. Really, that's all I ever wanted from the show, was at the end for all 3 of the core characters to still be such close friends. With time friendships always weaken & they can even be destroyed. To me the worst thing to happen in the Series, but also an exciting thing, was the Sn.3 storyline of Joey falling for the forbidden love with Pacey, having to crush Dawson in that way. That was the 1st sign that the 3-way friendship would be destroyed & for a while it was by that. I knew leading up to that, that things wouldn't ever be the same afterwards. But it had to happen & I knew that too. Turned out to be true in a way, cause things never were the same.

I think that's what made the Sn's after that a lil worse for me, only for things to heat up again at the end. But after J&P were done in Sn.4 they remained friends just as she was with Dawson, so there were similarities in that. But to me, in the beginning, you had D&J best friends & Joey developed feelings for him. There was nothing better than when those were finally mutual & they had that moment in Dawson's bedroom. The same room Joey spent all those yrs climbing into, then she was kissing the person she loved more than anyone. To me there's just so much sentimentality between those two. But in the end, I guess they attempted to make it ok by saying.. Dawson & Joey forever, they're soulmates, they'll always be best friends. But not lovers. To me it worked either way come to think of it. Some say that D&J never clicked romantically, but I thought that was the point. I always felt like the writers did that on purpose, to keep teasing that perfect soulmate relationship but never letting DJ get it's chance. They did that for 6 seasons I figured, so that in the very end when DJ finally got it's chance, everyone would've been waiting for that. But that strategy turned out to turn a lot of ppl off to D&J. But I still believe they never got their chance. Either way, it's over now & maybe talking or complaining about it is useless. I'm happy with either ending & since it was ended the way it was, it's got it's own good things about it. Pacey and Joey 'are' a hilarious, & fitting couple.. and Dawson and Joey.. Always, Forever, in whatever form that may be.

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Post by jbangelo » 02/10/04 14:21

Quote:
and even a few "no shippers".
That would be me. I'm a rare breed...I like D/J and P/J.

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DJ/P diatribe f/iMdb & some questions?

Post by thor29 » 03/22/06 21:24

I have to comment here because the name of the series was 'Dawson's Creek' because it was told through Dawson's eyes but the show grew a life of its own as Katie and Josh/Joey and Pacey had undeniable chemistry between them and Dawson is a big wet mop.

What can you do with a big wet mop I ask you?

Who said Dawson had to end up with Joey? Its not the "Dawson gets Joey "show and just because two "kids" say they are sole mates doesn't mean its true.
I have always seen Joey and Dawson as "family", thats their connection. Seeing them together was like incest to me.
When Joey dumped Pacey in Season 3 she said it was because she didn't want to lose Dawson's friendship, not love, her "friend" Dawson.
There were alot of things in the show that didn't go the way it should have or even made sense, like how quickly people forgot each other on the show which made it annoying at times but in the end we have to remember its only a show.
The writers can do as they please and they certainly had fun keeping us guessing

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DJ/P diatribe f/iMdb & some questions?

Post by Hulk Hogan 80 » 07/20/06 20:05

The actors chemistry or for that point, anything to do with the actors' real lives period should have 100% nothing to do with the characters of the show or how it plays out. So those 2 had chemistry offscreen, good for them. The show is meant to be a story, you get into the characters and know them for who they are. That said, you're right alot may have not made perfect sense, because there's no such thing as perfect writing. The free-flowing nature of the show made anything alright I guess, so long as it was justified. Sometimes things weren't fully justified, but oh well DC was great nonetheless. In general, there were obvious changes w/o Williamson in charge but the writing was always good. I don't think I'll ever again see a show so perfectly weave writing together emotionally and mix music so well also. It was a great show.

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