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Mr J all the way
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 All right guys, I just read the finale for Angel on a spoilers page and now I'm thinking "  ." I mean Angel and the gang are taking over Wolfram & Hart? Did they forget they were evil? Wasn't Lilah dead? Has Conner gone crazy? Like the traditional Joss Whedon fashion, the man leaves us with more questions that answers in the finale. I keep thinking "Wolfram & Hart are setting some kinda trap", but so far it looks to be genuine. They've been the big bad behind all the other big bads for all four seasons and now they're just handing the reigns over to the good guys. Sounds like a big ol' trap to me, but I guess we'll have to wait a few weeks to see. Don't get me wrong I'm thrilled Wolgram & Hart is back. I was pissed when the Beast tore them apart (even though that was a cool espisode). Onto Conner, according to the spoilers he's set up with some sorta mock family where he's more or less a normal kid worrying about the usual kid stuff instead of demons and darkness. And the kicker is that Angel seems very aware of this fact yet just lets it proceed. A few other interesting sidenotes is that Jasmine seems to have mysteriously vanished (or destroyed) and that Cordelia still remains in a comma. Personally I'm hoping Jasmine gets a little more devious before she departs, cause this "love is the way" shraoud is gonna get old really fast. While we're on the subject of bad ass bitches, Lilah's back! I'm not as surprised about this "resureection". I mean Holland from season 1-2 returned from the dead after Darla and Dru killed him, so maybe the top executives are bound to the service of Wolfram & Hart even in death. I'm kinda hoping the little girl in the white room returns as well, cause she was kick ass. It sounds like a perfect finale that will probably end in cliffhanger badness, but it'll also lead into a spectacular beginning for season 5. I'm expecting Willow to have to save everybody from Wolfram & Hart's clutches, assuming she makes the crossover journey to LA after Buffy bows out.So like all things, we'll have to wait and see how it all turns out. 
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destinyros2005
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Hmmm...interesting. I wonder how exactly they are going to bring Lilah back. Some kind of spell. Will she be a demon? Will she be human? What exactly? Interesting. And how in the world is Wolfram & Hart just going to let Angel Inc. come strutting in a take over the place. Hmmm...  .
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Mr J all the way
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Lilah looks very human. Saw a pic of her from the ep yesterday. Cept she is wearing a scarf around her neck (where evil cordy stabbed her). I was watching an ep of Angel yesterday, which had Holland manners in it. He was a big deal at Wolfram & Hart till Darla and Drusilla killed him and several other lawyers in his wine cellar. Anway he showed up to speak briefly to Angel. In the conversation he mentioned that his contract with Wolfram & Hart extended beyond his death.Creepy. I'm figuring the same thing happened with Lilah. She had a lot of power towards the end. I'm thinking she signed herself over, body and soul forever, to get that power. Anyway it's good to have Wolfram & Hart back...they would have been severly missed had they stayed gone. They're like Angel's eternal nemesises.
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Lighthouse215
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I can't believe that next Wednesday is the season finale.. it only seems like a few months ago I was watching the premire for the season. I hadn't read any spoilers for Angel in about 2 months, so seeing Lilah come back was a total shocker! I nearly fell outta my chair!  It looks like the finale is going to be full of surprises.. and of course, they'll leave us with some sort of cliffhanger. I just hope its not similar to the one last season. I about died when Connor pushed Angel into the ocean.. and we had to wait 3 months to see what happened. 
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Mr J all the way
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All signs are pointing to a cliffhanger.Not a big one I hear, but a minor one. Nothing like last year's "watery grave" incident. So brace yourself!
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destinyros2005
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Well, it is a finale and a finale just wouldn't be right without some kind of cliffhanger. If it's good...it's what makes you think about the show all summer!
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Mr J all the way
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I hate thinking about shows all summer. Drives me kinda insane. Gonna be hard to NOT think about Buffy all summer though.
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Lighthouse215
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It drives me wild to think about whats going to happen.. but I'd rather be left thinking than not.
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destinyros2005
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But if you're not left thinking or wondering about what's going to happen, did the writer's really do a good job?
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Mr J all the way
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It is nice to be left thinking about a show all summer long, but it's not a MUST to me. The thing I always loved about Buffy was that each season more or less ended with it all wrapped up in a nice neat package. The Big bad was usually snuffed out and everyone was generally in a happy place. Angel's always been an "out of nowhere" show. It's like things happen to this guy without warning. Angel is a very unpredictable show (unless you read the spoilers). Buffy is unpredictable too, but to a different degree. Cliffhangers always make me nervous though, especially if the show handing me a cliffhanger hasn't been renewed. It means that should a suit decided it's not worth keeping, then I'll have to go through the rest of my life wondering exactly what the hell was going to happen. Ok that was a little over dramatized, but you get the point. A good example of a cliffhanger show is ALIAS. That show leaves you with a cliffhanger about every episode and it's sure to leave me with one tonight in it's finale. However, one thing that makes me less worried about Alias leaving me with a cliffhanger is that it's already been renewed, while Angel has not.
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destinyros2005
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Mr. J...I just can't even get into a discussion about cliffhangers anymore. Not after last night's Alias cliffhanger. I'm still in shock! 
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Mr J all the way
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I KNOW WASN'T THAT GREAT! I loved the part with Syd and her mom on the ice, and then she started toward her like she was gonna attack and Irina slammed her down. I was like "Damn." I was glad Irina escaped and wasn't killed off. She's such a great character. Lena Olin has been the best addition to the show IMO. I really hope she shows up for the third season. I'd like to see her and/or Gina Torres' Anna Espinosa return. Also I was thrilled beyond words that Evil Francie bought it. That bitch was seriously bothering me. I usually like the villains too, but she just rubbed me the wrong way. Sloan wasn't in it much, which surprised me. It's like the man is the devil incarnate but was only around 10 minutes tops. Also if Syd is the one in the picture, then doesn't that mean she's gonna destroy the world with the "unto utter desolation" stuff. Now the big question.. How the hell did she go missing for TWO YEARS? Was it Sloane? Was it her mom? Was it the crazy chinese torture guy that tore out her teeth in the very first episode? Is Vaughn married?J.J Abrams is the total devil to me. He screws you over BIG TIME with his cliffhangers. Joss has been evil on occasion but he's got nothing on J.J. Although both of them are Gods among mortals and I love any show they send out into the world. I'm staring to wonder in Rimbaldi will ever not be a fixture of Alias. I honestly thought he was just something they'd do in the first season and would move onto something else by season two, but he looks to be a perminant fixture. No harm no foul though. The world of Alias is better with him and his devices in it. I still miss SD-6 though. Watching Syd struggle with her double agent life was some of the most compelling drama I've ever witnessed and suddenly I'm realizing I'm still on the Angel/Buffy board so I'll stop now. Is there a cool Alias board around here?
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destinyros2005
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Is there a cool Alias board around here? Of course!  https://foreverdreaming.org/viewforum.php?f=26]Alias Forum[/url]
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bunniefuu
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OMG. Mr. J watched Alias too? Why in heavens haven't you stopped by and said hello yet? I just had to say I loved that scene with Irena and Syd on the ice also. At first I didn't trust her mother at all and now, I just love her character... and she has won my trust; which is odd. I wonder if JJ expects us to do that? And I can't think about her being missing or dead for two years and Vaughn being married, I'm too distraught over this still. My rants will come out soon enough I suppose! Oh and thought I'd add, that although I've never seen one episode of Buffy in how ever many years it's been on; I'm seriously thinking about watching the finale just for the hell of it.
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destinyros2005
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You should, Bunnie!  Mr. J...did you see the preview tonight for next weeks Buffy? I know Angel is suppose to be on, but is it Angel or is it The First?  
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Mr J all the way
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Did I see previews? Who do you think you're talking to? I don't leave till the "grrrrr...arggggh" releases me.  Everything I've read and seen points to it actually being the real deal Angel. Plus I doubt the First would try and pull that crap with Buffy. She's too slick for it's illusion tricks. Everyone else though is fair game. Faith seemed to be falling under it's influence when it became the Mayor, which I loved by the way. I really really wanna see more big bads pop up before the end. Also the biggest news SHE FOUND THE WEAPON IN "FRAY" (comic about a future slayer that is written by Joss "God" Whedon) I was so loving that. That was the best 2 seconds ever. I can't wait to see her use it. Also any scene involving the First and Caleb's interactions is priceless. I loved the part when Caleb was trying to get Buffy and the First was sitting there saying "Caleb, this is getting a little embarassing." Also the part when the Bringer was talking through Andrew was neat. Gave some cool insights into how they think and feel. Some people were bashing the ep and I was like "who are you people?" I thought it was a great ep. Not the best, mind you, but great. My personal fav thus far has been "Dirty Girls" , but moving on. I will defintly have to make my presence known at the Alias board. I'll probably kick it off with some Irina postage.Also Angel's finale tonight was a whole messa' -age
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desireable
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i am so very, very, VERY to the power of EXTREMELY confused. i've just read the episode review for the last angel and i have to say (in true buffy style) who whatting how with huh? it said:the fang gang taking over w&h...guh? and also something about gunn and a panther (now i hear there's a little girl in that room too) what happened there anyway? did it like, eat him or something and spit out a different gunn? the fang gang taking over w&h...guh? i mean honestly, what the hell is going on. i cant make any sense of it, would some one PLEASE care to explain to a poor girl who wont get to see season four until next year cos she only has crappy british tv. boo hoo.   i dont get it. i really dont. and what's with cordy still in that coma, and angel AGREEING to going w&h and everything else! it's too much for my mortal brain to process, sigh.
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Mr J all the way
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This question may take a group of dedicated Angel fans to explain... but I'll try to tackle it myself first. Angel and the gang were granted the opportunity to take over Wolfram & Hart because they ended "world peace" when they stopped Jasmine. The senior partners of Wolfram & Hart saw that as the ultimate good deed. Angel and the gang of course refuse to believe they ended world peace because Jasmine ate thousands of people just to sustain herself and her spell that kept everyone lovey dovey. Anyway it doesn't matter to W&H, they feel that this deed deserves the best reward; the LA office of W&H. They did eventually take it over in the end after alot of prodding from Lilah and others working for W&H. The scene with Gunn abd the panther was odd. I'm not even sure I understand it. As far as the little girl, she seemed long gone. I'm guessing she died of whatever after the Beast attacked the office earlier in the season. There was no part that showed the panther eating gunn, but when the gang was reunited in the main lobby after their respected tours, he was acting very differently. Cordelia is still in the comma after she gave birth to Jasmine (big bad) and for the most part Angel only accepted the offer so he could set right a lot of the mistakes he had made with conner and also so he could gain the resources he'd need to help Buffy in the coming final battle.It was a very "different" finale, but overall it was decent. I think it makes little sense right now, but once it returns for season 6 all the confusion will be worth it.I really hope this helped.
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destinyros2005
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Well, that was interesting. Wolfram, Hart and Angel Inc. huh? Hmm. Leave it to W&H to think that Angel and crew getting rid of Jasmine would be getting rid of world peace.  Sick, twisted bastards! Oh yeah, I forgot, this is W&H I'm talking about. My bad. I do have to say, the part with Gunn was odd. I assumed his comment about the little girl was about the girl that was his tour guide, that he'd rather have her instead of the jaguar. I could be wrong. I was a little shocked to see that he'd pass up the offer at first for W&H when they tried to lure him with Buffy. She's always been a weakness for Angel. But Conner is what did it for him. And Cordelia. Interesting. I'm excited to see what he does on Buffy next week! All in all, I thought it was a pretty good finale!
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Mr J all the way
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I'm seriously hoping Angel doesn't zoom into Sunnydale, sweep Buffy off her feet and save her from the big bad Caleb. How cheesy would that be? I seemed like ever since they had that killer goodbye stare off at the end of season three all they've been doing is running into each others arms like it never happened. I understand that they're still friends and love each other, but they don't have to go all horny every time they see each other. Also Angel better keep his hands off Caleb (not that I think he could take him anyway)because he's totally Buffy's kill. Caleb hates all women. He symbolizes everything Buffy is against. Buffy's a very woman empowering character and Caleb is the anti thesis of that. So if Caleb were to be struck down by Angel that would defeat the entire purpose of even pitting Caleb against Buffy if she just needed some man to come save her in the end. An interesting tid bit I learned from a pic I saw at Comics Continuum was that Caleb apparently gets his hands on the weapon Buffy found in the last ep. I doubt he can use it though because it's "for her alone to wield." The First is sure to be pissed once it discovers Caleb failed at stopping Buffy from securing the relic/weapon. 
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